PR2.0: Conversational Marketing Versus Market Conversations
Julian
· 2 years ago
Saw your tweet and stopped by for a read. Wow Brian. Did you ever just nail it!
I've been entrenched in sales, marketing and technology for 20+ years but I evangelize social media now.
I use social media in every aspect of my personal and professional life and yet I find myself just starting to grasp its potential. I say this even though my consulting practice is based largely on advising companies on social media and web technologies. :) I get it intuitively, but my rational, reasoning side is still busy trying to figure out if the world ends in a cliff or continues on over a horizon. I think that makes me pretty similar to most folks - we're all just starting to get a clue as to how to use it.
I keep harping on the theme that all this technology we're using is for people to better relate to each other, to better understand more about our differences and accomplish more through more informed action. More in richer relationships, more in marketing, more in business, more in learning, more in life, more to help other people. The applications are endless if we keep the focus on using the tools to better ourselves and others.
I haven't written half as good a post as you have here but you can follow some of my own musings on my biz blog exceler8ion.
My dad and I are having a conversation right now on social media through the lens of web 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 as it relates to new technology, media and human traits. Starts on my Dad's blog YankeeWombat and moves to EXCELER8ion.
Cheers
Julian
Geoff_Livingston
· 2 years ago
F'ing fantastic post, Brian. Right on. I love it (going to tweet it).
There's a self centered ethos to cos that they can just jump in and do what they want. But only by getting out of themselves and into the community can they become part of the conversation. Perhaps all social media marketers should read Dale Carnegie before even starting to read out here.
Cheers,
GL
Hansdek
· 2 years ago
Great rational rant - wonderful post. There are no experts in this field. Whilst innovation is travelling fast - you do not become an expert in one day. There is a lot of hype in this space and through all this hype and noise it more then often becomes difficult to understand what it means to people and business. Whilst there are no experts in this space, there are "Good Innovators" who have common sense hard-wired through their thinking and doing. They are good at cutting hype and distilling value out of this plethoric ocean of concepts available to all of us.
At the end of the day - if you deliver value - word of mouth will carry that value on its shoulders through the network. If you do not provide value - it just won't work. If you then try to force the non-perceived value through unclever ways, masking your corporate or marketing intentions behind some "branded social persona", you will fail miserably.
You cannot polish a turd.
Wonderful application of your brain - you're an interesting character to follow.
Cheers from Sydney, Australia
Connie Bensen
· 2 years ago
I caught Geoff's tweet on this. And I totally agree that one can't go assuming you have a right to be marketing your products in a social space. You need to earn it by being transparent & participating in an organic & grassroots manner.
Francois Gossieaux
· 2 years ago
Hi Peter,
Great post!
While markets are conversations, marketing does not need to be conversational at all times. Also and in some cases marketing cannot be conversational because of a company culture.
I would not go so far to say that marketers are not welcome at all in conversations. I think that in some cases they are welcome...I would also not go so far as to reject the notion of "audiences"...sometimes there is an audience - think of a conference, a class room, a political rally. The same is true for companies...sometimes they still have an "audience" for a message that they have to convey - good or bad.
"There is no audience in conversations. Nor is there an audience for any other form of Social Media. Each venue comprises of groups of people and they each come to the table with a different recipe of experiences, preferences, dislikes, and prejudices all wrapped in a blanket of skepticism and hope."
This is the most genius thing I've encountered all day.
Richard Stacy
· 2 years ago
I don't think brands are conversations (although they should be conversational). Brands are stories - and they need to recognise this and work-out what their stories are. Only when they have done this will they be able work out what sort of conversations they can have (to Doc Searls' point).
Brian Solis
· 2 years ago
Julian, thanks! Interesting transition into social media...I'll take a look at your posts rightaway. Thanks again for stopping by and for your support!
Geoff, excellent point and thank you for throwing it out on Twitter!
Hansdek, I love it, "You can't polish a turd." Very true...although many try, which is part of the problem :) Truly there aren't any experts here, but just a group of people with good intent. And right now, "intention" is everything.
Connie, well said.
Thanks Amanda, that was very nice of you to say! :)
Richard, exactly! Brands are personalities, they are stories, they are actively discussed and reviewed with or without company spokespersons.
Sam Freedom
· 2 years ago
Holy Verbosity, Batman!
So naturally, you hit on a few good points. Not to say they were well developed but that's not yours or anyone's fault. It's just that there's no audience for a Moses-style presentation on how to part the Red Sea of mind-control marketing madness.
In so many ways, we are like the Iraqi who are just beginning to taste freedom after 1,400 years of brutal repression.
Except we have been hostage to corporate entitites who profited from our inability to communicate with them, or each other, effectively.
I want to address one of your quotes:
"The markets on the other side of the proverbial "other side of the fence" however, should be warned that the very marketers that forced the defection have figured out that there’s fortune and bountiful opportunities in jumping ship and blending into the new world of Social marketing."
I commented, explaining that you will not EVER transform the "opportunistic marketer" phenomenon if you deal with it like the U.S. deals with the use of marijuana.
Instead of going to war with it, you need to make room for a certain segment of the more responsible opportunistic marketers and then THEY, who are much better suited for it, will police themselves.
That is, if you want to keep it in check. If you just want to have conversations about it, then declare war on it and you'll be talking about it forever.
As far as the rest of this "social media hype" goes, most of it's just utter nonsense because not only is it so new that most people can't fathom what kind of a creature it really is BUT ALSO very few have ever been schooled in HOW to determine what kind of a creature it is.
I can speak from experience on this because I have an unusual kind of training. You won't find it being mentioned so casually and even I, at the risk of being misunderstood, must leave some of it to mystery.
But aside from talking ABOUT my training, there can be some "proof in the pudding" if one wishes to present questions to me privately... or even publicly is fine as long as they remain sincere.
In the while, I'll just go back to playing my role. Stop by... see if, after the initial, more obvious, impressions, you can spot some deeper, more interesting patterns.
Best wishes, I applaud you for taking this on, Sam <a href="http://controversialmarketing.blogspot.com/2007/11/big-twitt er-experiment-and-most-awkward.html"> er-experiment-and-most-awkward.html" REL="nofollow">Sam Freedoms Internet Marketing Controversy Blog
All Comments
I've been entrenched in sales, marketing and technology for 20+ years but I evangelize social media now.
I use social media in every aspect of my personal and professional life and yet I find myself just starting to grasp its potential. I say this even though my consulting practice is based largely on advising companies on social media and web technologies. :) I get it intuitively, but my rational, reasoning side is still busy trying to figure out if the world ends in a cliff or continues on over a horizon. I think that makes me pretty similar to most folks - we're all just starting to get a clue as to how to use it.
I keep harping on the theme that all this technology we're using is for people to better relate to each other, to better understand more about our differences and accomplish more through more informed action. More in richer relationships, more in marketing, more in business, more in learning, more in life, more to help other people. The applications are endless if we keep the focus on using the tools to better ourselves and others.
I haven't written half as good a post as you have here but you can follow some of my own musings on my biz blog exceler8ion.
My dad and I are having a conversation right now on social media through the lens of web 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 as it relates to new technology, media and human traits. Starts on my Dad's blog YankeeWombat and moves to EXCELER8ion.
Cheers
Julian
There's a self centered ethos to cos that they can just jump in and do what they want. But only by getting out of themselves and into the community can they become part of the conversation. Perhaps all social media marketers should read Dale Carnegie before even starting to read out here.
Cheers,
GL
Whilst there are no experts in this space, there are "Good Innovators" who have common sense hard-wired through their thinking and doing. They are good at cutting hype and distilling value out of this plethoric ocean of concepts available to all of us.
At the end of the day - if you deliver value - word of mouth will carry that value on its shoulders through the network. If you do not provide value - it just won't work. If you then try to force the non-perceived value through unclever ways, masking your corporate or marketing intentions behind some "branded social persona", you will fail miserably.
You cannot polish a turd.
Wonderful application of your brain - you're an interesting character to follow.
Cheers from Sydney, Australia
Great post!
While markets are conversations, marketing does not need to be conversational at all times. Also and in some cases marketing cannot be conversational because of a company culture.
I would not go so far to say that marketers are not welcome at all in conversations. I think that in some cases they are welcome...I would also not go so far as to reject the notion of "audiences"...sometimes there is an audience - think of a conference, a class room, a political rally. The same is true for companies...sometimes they still have an "audience" for a message that they have to convey - good or bad.
I interviewed David Weinberger on this and other topics related to the future of marketing. I put the recording in the marketing 2.0 group in facebook (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4485718989). I also wrote about some recent developments in conversational marketing on my blog - www.emergencemarketing.com.
Cheers...>
This is the most genius thing I've encountered all day.
Geoff, excellent point and thank you for throwing it out on Twitter!
Hansdek, I love it, "You can't polish a turd." Very true...although many try, which is part of the problem :) Truly there aren't any experts here, but just a group of people with good intent. And right now, "intention" is everything.
Connie, well said.
Thanks Amanda, that was very nice of you to say! :)
Richard, exactly! Brands are personalities, they are stories, they are actively discussed and reviewed with or without company spokespersons.
So naturally, you hit on a few good points. Not to say they were well developed but that's not yours or anyone's fault. It's just that there's no audience for a Moses-style presentation on how to part the Red Sea of mind-control marketing madness.
In so many ways, we are like the Iraqi who are just beginning to taste freedom after 1,400 years of brutal repression.
Except we have been hostage to corporate entitites who profited from our inability to communicate with them, or each other, effectively.
I want to address one of your quotes:
"The markets on the other side of the proverbial "other side of the fence" however, should be warned that the very marketers that forced the defection have figured out that there’s fortune and bountiful opportunities in jumping ship and blending into the new world of Social marketing."
Where your article was Sphunn on Sphinn.com
I commented, explaining that you will not EVER transform the "opportunistic marketer" phenomenon if you deal with it like the U.S. deals with the use of marijuana.
Instead of going to war with it, you need to make room for a certain segment of the more responsible opportunistic marketers and then THEY, who are much better suited for it, will police themselves.
That is, if you want to keep it in check. If you just want to have conversations about it, then declare war on it and you'll be talking about it forever.
As far as the rest of this "social media hype" goes, most of it's just utter nonsense because not only is it so new that most people can't fathom what kind of a creature it really is BUT ALSO very few have ever been schooled in HOW to determine what kind of a creature it is.
I can speak from experience on this because I have an unusual kind of training. You won't find it being mentioned so casually and even I, at the risk of being misunderstood, must leave some of it to mystery.
But aside from talking ABOUT my training, there can be some "proof in the pudding" if one wishes to present questions to me privately... or even publicly is fine as long as they remain sincere.
In the while, I'll just go back to playing my role. Stop by... see if, after the initial, more obvious, impressions, you can spot some deeper, more interesting patterns.
Best wishes, I applaud you for taking this on,
Sam
<a href="http://controversialmarketing.blogspot.com/2007/11/big-twitt
er-experiment-and-most-awkward.html">
er-experiment-and-most-awkward.html" REL="nofollow">Sam Freedoms Internet Marketing Controversy Blog